Disney Princess Best Develoment Countdown FINAL: Pick the one that has changed the MOST. تبصرے CONSIDERED!

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25 fans picked:
Mulan
   72%
Merida
   28%
 EmaSomolanyiova posted پہلے زیادہ سے سال ایک
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16 comments

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EmaSomolanyiova picked Mulan:
3. Tiana
4. Pocahontas
5. Rapunzel
6. Belle
7. Ariel
8. Jasmine
9. Cinderella
10. Snow White
11. Aurora

WE MADE IT TO THE FINALS, GUYS! So feel free to vote for, careful, for THE PRINCESS THAT HAS CHANGED THE MOST. The deadline is tomorrow midnight.

I think Merida HAD development, a big one, but Mulan has SLIGHTLY a bigger and better one. She made it from Zero to Hero, and to WHOLE China! No doubt she wins this countdown for me.
posted پہلے زیادہ سے سال ایک.
 
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wavesurf picked Mulan:
My favorite princess changed the most. Merida, one of my least favorites, changed "a tad bit" and then regressed right back to where she had been all along.

Brave failed as a movie to convince me that Merida actually had a lasting commitment to being a nice person.

Merida caused/created more problems for everyone. Mulan actually sacrificed herself for her father, her army mates, and her country.

There is no competition here at all. Mulan saved many lives.
posted پہلے زیادہ سے سال ایک.
 
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MissCinico picked Merida:
@wavesurf: Saving lives, versus making problems doesn't judge how much a character has changed.

I think that Merida changed more than Mulan personality wise. Mulan still has the same values, traditions, wants and still acts on them. It's just now she has the means and the muscle to be called a hero for it. Merida on the other hand was more care-free, wild, and wouldn't pay attention during her lessons, but by the end she makes less excuses for herself, she adapts "grace and poise" and other more calm diplomatic actions. She has a really long scene of how sorry and remorseful she is when she thinks her mother won't turn back to being human that I think marks how much she's changed. I also think it's worth noting that when Elanor does change back and Merida says "You've changed!" and Elanor realizes that Merida has grown too, and says "Oh, darling, we both have." It's one of the main themes in the movie that Merida has developed into a different person than what she was in the begining. Mulan was more coming into herself rather than growing as a person. Both have changed in a way, but Merida more so character wise in my opinion, though it seems I'm in the minority.
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disnerdtobe picked Mulan:
^interesting point. I still think mulan changed the most. She went from zero to hero.
posted پہلے زیادہ سے سال ایک.
 
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wavesurf picked Mulan:
@MissCinico: By what, exactly, do I know that Merida's personality has changed? Because she cried a few tears once she really realized that Elinor ( under the repaired tapestry) was probably going to be gone forever thanks to her? A few tears does not = change of personality to me. I'm sorry.

After that, what other proof in the movie is there? Merida watches her mother complete a new tapestry. Merida is not doing it herself. Maybe Merida tolerates/ likes her mother's tapestry, but she is not crafting one herself!

Merida is still disgusted by princes kissing her hand -- as evidenced by her grimace at the end of the movie on the pier.

And then the last thing the audience sees is Merida riding horses with her mother--outdoors. It is Elinor who is now doing activities Merida "likes."

I don't see the "we've both changed" moment occurring in Merida. I see it really happening in Elinor. It was Elinor who changed her mind about the marriage tradition. Merida definitely didn't change her mind about the marriage in any significant way-- Merida just "resigned herself to the marriage" when in the hall with the lords of the clans. Merida wasn't happy, but was grudgingly accepting, at last, her role in what had happened. Elinor preempted her "total evolution."

And, yes--- SAVING LIVES matters more, and saving lives should matter more, than showing out in public, throwing a curse on someone-- and then belatedly undoing "said curse." Cursing another person and then undoing the curse, is not a sign of an overall personality change. It is a sign that the person made a whopping error, was chagrined when it backfired on them, and then undid it. From my perspective, Merida saved face. But nothing more than that.
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Aang_Lite_ picked Mulan:
^ Why do you act so willingly obtuse towards Brave? I understand not liking Merida that much but the whole point of the movie is that she changes. She learns to use diplomacy, and more importantly she learns that her actions have consequences. She becomes a much wiser person at the end of the movie than she was at the beginning. Also the final tapestry was completely at the end of Brave so who's to say that they both didn't make it together? It's more likely that Elinor made it, but still. And she doesn't 'tolerate' the tapestry she's literally holding her hand with her mother and jumping for joy.

Elinor's changes don't undermine Merida's. And it's a damn good thing that Elinor changed, considering that she was willing to sell her daughter off as though she was a piece of property.

As for the question, Mulan has a complete character overhaul.
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wavesurf picked Mulan:
@Aang_Lite: Why are you calling me obtuse? That's insulting. I gave Merida a chance to prove to me that she was becoming a nice person. Reversing a curse is a sign of regret, not a sign of a "change of habit." And Merida did NOTHING particularly nice after changing her mother back into a human.

I still do not seem to at all support most of your views on Ariel. It's fine that you dump on my favorites, but calling me "obtuse" over Merida is really below the belt.
posted پہلے زیادہ سے سال ایک.
 
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UnholyNoise picked Merida:
While Mulan does go through a decent amount of character growth, I think lot of the changes that happen at the end of Mulan come through how people perceive and accept her, rather than the other way around - which is more true of what happens with Merida in Brave. (if that makes sense)

Also saving lives is in incidental benefit - not direct proof for who changes the most.
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wavesurf picked Mulan:
^Hmm. I'd argue that those who won "purple hearts" and "medals" for saving lives in the military did not do so for "incidental benefit" and their own glorification. And actually, a person who is already sacrificial and nice towards other people, usually is someone whom others will respect. Someone who starts off nasty, and then "maybe" changes afterward...has an uphill climb toward reestablishing relationships and rebuilding trust. Being a person whom others "can trust" is also part of personal growth. Unfortunately, that did not seem to happen as much in Merida as I would have liked.
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UnholyNoise picked Merida:
"Hmm. I'd argue that those who won "purple hearts" and "medals" for saving lives in the military did not do so for "incidental benefit" and their own glorification."

You could argue that, but it has nothing to do with what anybody in this thread is talking about. :)
Being brave and saving lives is great, duh, but in itself it doesn't tell us anything about how much this person has grown or what they were like before - you're not inherently more/better developed than someone else just because you saved more lives and you command more respect.

Development is all about the uphill climb you mentioned. And I feel that some characters, like Mulan, had a shorter trip getting to the top.
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wavesurf picked Mulan:
^And I'd argue that Merida did not fully demonstrate "a real journey" into changing her own perspective. And Merida doesn't really help anybody else along her story arc, save her own mother.... And her own mother was the person Merida had scorned, and with whom she had had the huge argument in the first place.

Contrast this, with Mulan actually stopping a bunch of lazy habits she had; Mulan learning a bunch of new skills and how to work "as a team" with others ( where formerly Mulan had been a loner heretofore); and Mulan then jettisoning her own personal quest for "self-worth," "honor for her family," and "glory." I think there is more personal growth going on with all of those changes--- than Merida simply undoing a spell she enacted, because Merida was too proud to compromise, appreciate tradition bonds, and be sacrificial towards her own kingdom. Merida finally had to accept what she had done, but that is not the same thing as character change. "Acceptance" of having done wrong is only the first step. Where is the follow through? Where does Merida live out her new "mindset?" All I see is her riding horses in the forest ( this time with her mom), just as she was doing before this whole movie transpired. Elinor seemed to change enough to ride horses with Merida. But as for Merida? Merida is back to being herself, wild and free.
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lililc picked Mulan:
i think if you compare Mulan from the beggining and the final scene there are more changes than Merida had
posted پہلے زیادہ سے سال ایک.
 
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Sparklefairy375 picked Mulan:
Both are change, but Mulan's development was very significant, she's totally a different person in the end of the movie.

And about Merida, I agree with what MissCinico and Aang_Lite_ said.
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anukriti2409 picked Mulan:
i agree about Merida with MissCinico and Aang_Lite, but i feel Mulan's character change is better spread out and she improves her positive traits and also overcomes her shortcomings. Merida's change is more drastic to see, she goes from one end to the other but also her development is only about overcoming her shortcomings and there isnt much about her improvement over her positive traits.
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xanara picked Mulan:
Even physical appearance wise, Mulan changes way more than Merida ever does.
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connor3 said:
Why on earth would Merida be happy about the marriage? If she would, that would be literally change for worse? She doesn't like the idea, than how was she supposed to suddenly be happy about it? Her opinion won't change like that, that's not how it works. Her accepting the marriage even though she still doesn't want it is precisely what shows the change in her. It shows she is willing to take on her role as a princess and duties even if she doesn't agree with them. That's personality development, because she wouldn't do that before. Her suddenly liking the marriage idea wouldn't be the change in her personality, but simply the change in her liking? Like literally, it would be the same as saying "I hated rock before, but now it's my favourite music genre". If she would just start to like the tradition, the whole problem wouldn't even exist and change in her personality wouldn't be even needed.

Also, the tapestry and the end of the movie was done by both Merida and Elinor, Merida wasn't just watching it. I haven't seen the movie in a long time so I don't really remember that scene, but pretty sure it was that way. Even all the novelizations and Merida's story on Disney Princess website says it was done by both of them. Also, Merida wears a dress that is much more fancy at the end of the movie. She still doesn't like princes kissing her hand, but she let them do it, because she knows it's her duty. These scenes basically show her whole evolution and I don't know how could anyone use them as evidence she didn't change... The end of the movie is beautiful for me. It shows development for both Merida (1. accepting the marriage, kiss on her hand - things she doesn't like, but she does because she accepts her role now, and 2. tapestry, dress, etc. - things she didn't liked but now she can enjoy it because of Elinor) and for Elinor (riding horses with Merida, something Merida does like and Elinor wouldn't do before).
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