Disney Princess Article: Most Feminist Disney Princess Countdown Results! *Voted سے طرف کی the Public*

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Most Feminist Disney Princess Countdown Results! *Voted سے طرف کی the Public*

posted by Jessikaroo

Ahh, feminism. What is it, really? Because apparently, the majority of Fanpop does not have the faintest idea what it is. سے طرف کی definition, feminism is a noun meaning, "the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men." For those who were confused, this does not mean the most "man hating" princess یا the most feminine princess. Now that we've cleared this up, we can اقدام on.
One might argue it's insanity to even consider mixing feminism with its most feared foe, the Disney Princess franchise. There are people who would suggest I am trying to, "pick a fight," سے طرف کی even posting the polls. To those people, I say nay. I am simply giving people the chance to express their opinion on something مزید than the much repeated question, "which princess has the best hair."
Now that I've cleared up the obvious confusion and misguided hatred, we can actually get to the results. Ladies and gentlemen, I present, number ten!

10. Aurora
Movies: Sleeping Beauty, Enchanted Tales

According to the majority of Fanpoppers, Aurora is all fluff and no substance. She's a "brainless damsel in distress." Though in these early rounds there was much discord between voters, as we battled in out in a fashion similar to soldiers in battle, trying to decide who is truly less feminist: Aurora یا Snow White. Many argued that Snow White is less feminist than Aurora because Snow White doesn't stand up for herself and willingly places herself in traditional gender roles. سے طرف کی the end of the day, Aurora's grievous lack of screen time worked against her as usual. Aurora spends all of her screen time dancing, singing, cleaning, and fawning over Phillip. Well these are not bad things per se, Aurora's general lack of backbone and inability to fight for herself made her the first to leave the countdown.

The gentle one.

9. Cinderella
Movies: Cinderella, Dreams Come True, A Twist In Time

Interestingly, Snow White was voted out now according to percentages. But the wave of commenter’s voting out Cinderella won out in the end. People applauded Cinderella's emotional strength, her subtle defiance, and her small acts of rebellion. But at the same time people found Cinderella's defiance too subtle, her acts of rebellion too small. The fact Cinderella doesn't do really anything for herself secured her early elimination.

The passive one.

8. Snow White
Movies: Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs

Things got pretty heated at this point. At first, it was obvious Snow White should go next. She is the first princess after all, how could she be feminist? Well, many people argued that since Snow White is مزید feminist friendly than princesses like Ariel, because she survives without her prince and even puts herself in a position of power over everyone she meets. But she is still very much a damsel in distress, being saved سے طرف کی everyone from the huntsman to the dwarfs. This, plus her inability to do very much for herself made her the اگلے to leave.

The bossy one.

7. Jasmine
Movies: Aladdin, The Return of Jafar, The King of Thieves, Enchanted Tales, Aladdin Series

جیسمین, یاسمین leaving the countdown so early shocked a lot of people, considering she is one of the only princesses who verbally acknowledges her worth as a person. But even though جیسمین, یاسمین is a proud advocate of her own self worth, she still continues to deflect back into the typical damsel in distress role, and is extremely hypocritical about her own morals. While she claims she is no prize to be won, for the majority of the movie she allows Aladdin to treat her like one. This combined with her highly sexualized appearance caused her elimination.

The outspoken one.

6. Rapunzel
Movies: Tangled, Tangled Ever After

People often praise Rapunzel as a feminist شبیہ because of her hold over Flynn and the fact she uses a weapon. While Rapunzel is a very feminist friendly princess, these claims are along the same vein as claims Mulan saving China makes her an automatic feminist hero. Even though Rapunzel is a strong, capable young woman who saves Eugene a number of times, she relies very heavily on male help and often reverts to being a damsel, which many members argued eclipses her positives.

The creative one.

5. Ariel
Movies: The Little Mermaid, Return to the Sea, Ariel’s Beginning, TLM Series

Ah, Ariel. Many claim she is the least feminist friendly princess, stating that she changed herself for a man and doesn’t do anything worthy of feminist notary. While many commenters’ do agree that Eric had some sway in her decision to become human, they defended Ariel in the fact that she had an interest in the human world long before meeting Eric. Some members argued that Ariel enforces a women should be seen and not heard type of mentality, as well as the frame of thought that it’s okay for a woman to change herself for a man. Others argued that Ariel is feminist because she choose Eric as her goal, and because she, unlike most of the princesses, was fighting a form of male oppression in the form of her father. There’s enough material on the matter to argue about Ariel’s feminist qualities, but for now it’s plain to see why she left the countdown now.

The spirited one.

4. Pocahontas
Movies: Pocahontas, Journey to a New World

I personally whole heartedly disagree with Pocahontas leaving so early, as I, and many others, believe she is the only princess whose worth as a woman is never questioned. A few commenters’s pointed out that Pocahontas is obviously respected and independent, and she brings peace without ever resorting to violence یا dishonesty. Others argued that since Pocahontas doesn’t seem to have much faith in her abilities and spends much of her movie confused, this made her less feminist than the remaining princesses.

The wise one.

3. Belle
Movies: Beauty and the Beast, The Enchanted Christmas, Belle’s Magical World

For me personally, Pocahontas leaving so early really threw me off and I wasn’t sure who to vote for. Around now is when the debate over Belle versus Tiana began, and both sides made excellent points. Many of the voters pointed out that Belle did fall in love with an abusive man, and she was an extreme case of damsel in distress. But others were quick to mention that Belle didn’t fall for the Beast until after he started to change, and also Belle is one of the few princesses that have an outwardly feminist attitude, shown in her dealings with Gaston and the Beast. Alas, at the end of the دن مزید people spoke out against Belle, than for her. So she was اگلے to leave.

The knowledgeable one.

2. Tiana
Movies: Princess and the Frog

On the surface, Tiana appears to be exactly where she deserves to be. She is a business woman, she’s talented and hardworking, she proves everyone wrong سے طرف کی achieving her dream. She proved that a woman, and a woman of color too, can do anything that a man can do. But despite all this, many voters still believed Tiana should be lower. This is mostly because of her endgame, and the infamous line about how her dream wouldn’t be complete without Naveen. She did give up everything for Naveen; her dream, her career, her life, even her family. To me personally this is much worse than Ariel’s infractions. With one sentence, Tiana completely crushed everything else she had built up, it was basically her saying ”Yeah I almost have my dream, but this guy is waaay مزید important that my family and my career. Like so important I’m going to give up literally everything.” Is that an exaggeration? Maybe, unless آپ remember that Tiana didn’t know that she was going to become a princess. She was going to give up everything to live as a frog. Feminist win? آپ be the judge.

The dedicated one.

1. Mulan
Movies: Mulan 1 & 2

Of course Mulan won. She’s often heralded as the most feminist animated character ever, was there really any doubt? Not really. Of course there was hope, but still... Mulan is considered a feminist win because she saves China. She’s a warrior, she’s awesome. But is she really that feminist? If آپ apply a lot of the reasoning many of the voters used on other princesses at Mulan, she doesn’t really stack up. Mulan had to forgo all femininity and “become a man,” to save China. They had a whole song about it, آپ can’t argue this one. She didn’t directly oppose gender roles, she just wanted to be respected as a human being. Of course this isn’t a bad thing, but when آپ add all this together, does Mulan really deserve to be your number one?

The loyal one.

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Swanpride Mmm...you make some fair points about Ariel, though, I still see Rapunzel as more feminist, because she actually manages to deal with the situations she creates and thinks about the possible consequences. Ariel on the other hand goes into them without ever considering what might happen. Yes, Flynn ends up in danger during their journey, but the danger is orchestrated by himself...he betrayed the Stabbingtons, he is a wanted thief and it is his decision to go into the pup. He could have honored their deal and brought Ranpunzel straigt to the town and nothing would have happened. Ariel on the other hand sells her voice with no consideration for the consequences and she never apologizes to Triton for the consequences of this decision. Without her friends bailing her out again and again, Eric would have never even realized that she is "the one".

Jessikaroo Thank you everyone for taking the time to read and comment, all of you bring up some interesting views on the issue.

maryksand Swanpride but even despite the fact that Flynn betrayed the Stabbingtons he still would have had the chance to flee the kingdom safely had Rapunzel not blackmailed him into taking her to see the lanterns thus setting all of the events as well as dangers in motion. While I absolutely love the idea of her emotionally contributing to Flynn's evolation and development as well as agree with your point in regards to Rapunzel being by far, FAR more thoughtful than Ariel in terms of planning out her journey, when it comes to the "girl saves her guy" departement Ariel in my opinion outbeats Rapunzel. She manages to protect Eric two times from untimely and violent death, second time by physically confronting the attacker whereas Rapunzel does not manage to ultimately save Flynn from death, because he ends up dying saving HER. Him coming back to life was a matter of pure miracle. PS: "Daddy, I'm sorry, I did not mean it!" - Ariel did apologize despite the timing not being so great.

maryksand Also there is something I would like to add to my previous comment. Eric did not just "realize" that Ariel was the one and that imo was the whole point. Eric came to LOVE the mute Ariel and chose her OVER "the one" at some point. Right before he is hypnotized by Vanessa he throws a flute into the waves and is ready to decide in favour of the girl of flash and blood rather than pinning for unrealistic fantasy and proceed to be attached to his established romantic ideals. Ariel relied entirely on herself when it came to communicating with Eric and she had nothing else left but to rely entirely on herself when she needed to save him, both of the times. Sebastian and Flounder did not contribute to her saving him either time contrary to Rapunzel receiving help from thugs and Maximus, both to get out of the dangerous situations herself and help Flynn out as a bonus.

Swanpride But Rapunzel rescued Flynn twice, too. One when she rescues him from the guards (who would have hanged him..and there were no thugs to swing her hair over the beam for her) and the second time with her magic...and that's not counting they both working together to survive the drowning. Rapunzel and Flynn are, from the thugs song onwards, very much a team. With Ariel and Eric there is too much him providing for her in the relationship.

maryksand ^ But my point was a bit different, I'm not by any means trying to argue with the fact that Rapunzel got Flynn out of a lot of trouble but merely highlighting and pointing out the fact that the reason why he ended up in said trouble in the first place was the journey she blackmailed him into taking her on - and it was an incredibly enlightening, uplifting and incomparable experience for both of them in terms of emotional development which is something I greatly appreciate and even put above the experience Eric and Ariel shared together, but imo Ariel saving Eric was by far more powerful (and once again, I do not perceive the magic tear healing sequence as Rapunzel doing much saving because Flynn actually did die - to save her - and the magic was, as I already mentioned, pure miracle) considering Ariel did it all by herself, not having anything to do with the situation the first time she saved him from drawning or in any way contributing to him ending up in a life threatening circumstances during the storm. Then the second time yes, Eric did technically end up in trouble because of Ariel and her thoughtless deal with Ursula, but that was when he and Ariel worked as a team to defeat the threat that got in a way of their relationship and there was nothing to suggest that they were not equals. So while I entirely agree on all of your points about Rapunzel I definitely see Ariel differently, although I do very much appreciate your points and opinions. Generally, I agree that Rapunzel far, FAR outbeats and surpasses Ariel in terms of being insightful, practical and thoughtful and in that regard she definitely is a better representative of female liberation idea, however, I do also believe that Ariel is being deprived of the credit where credit is due and I do see her standing up for Eric and ultimately saving his life to be more significant than Rapunzel getting Flynn out of trouble multiple times in terms of the context. With that said, I am only talking about the physical aspect right now. As I mentioned previously, Rapunzel/Flynn emotionally contributing to each other's evolation >>> all of the experiences shared by Eric and Ariel in that departement (I love both couples equally, because they are pretty much the only Disney couples that entirely work for me and managed to effectively convince me in their genuiness and I could go on and on listing the strong sides of either, however, it's not what the discussion is about).

princesslullaby Not really sure what Rapunzel being thoughtful and Ariel not has to do with feminism.

Swanpride Because nothing annoys me more than a female character which is all "I can handle eveything" and in the end, said character can handle nothing on her own but needs to get rescued by her "prince". I think it sends the message that woman, no matter how competent they are, are underneath just those poor liitle wilting flowers who need help to deal with everything. I have rather a character like Snow White, who isn't equiped to deal with the forest (and knows this), but manages to tackle the challange anyway, than a character like Jasmine, who keeps saying that she is smart, capable aso, but doesn't manage pants in her whole movie and ends up getting rescued from her own stupidity all the time. Rapunzel is fairly naiv about the world, but she knows this, so she graps the opportunity to secure a leader for her. Ariel is naiv about the world above too, and to her credit, she tries to learn, but she basically goes headfirst into a situation for which she isn't equipped at all. What if Eric hadn't conveniently turned up at the beach to take her to his castle? What would she have done then? I wouldn't call Ariel anit-feminist, but I don't see anything feminist in her actions either.

Jayden-G Great article, and it is very well written. I agree with most of the points that were mentioned and the placements, but I would switch Rapunzel and Jasmine. Rapunzel did not do much if anything that was feminist, and sis not stand up to Mother Gothel until she found out about her heritage in the last 20 minutes of the film. Jasmine stood up to her father and Jafar from the very beginning, and she didn't tolerate Aladdin's foolishness when he was active like a prince. She was trying to prove to her father that she has an opinion and value, and she should take control of her life, and that is exactly what she did, which must have been hard since Agrabah is a very sexist kingdom, and looks down on women a lot. Both Rapunzel and Jasmine needed help when they left their homes, since they have never been into the outside world. Also Rapunzel had to convince Flynn into taking her to the lanterns and she would have never left if he didn't invade her tower, while Jasmine left completely by herself, and revealing herself to the guards to save Aladdin, though failed because of he guards sexist views

maryksand Not to sound rude or inconsiderate or disrespectful but I see nothing feminist in Snow White, again, I'm sorry, I don't mean to be harsh at all. I like her and I respect your points, Swanpride, but I strongly disagree. Firstly, I feel like I need to establish my position and make myself very clear in regards to the subject: I am not a feminist, never aspired to be one and find the general ideology of feminism to be incredibly and profoundly flawed and problematic, especially the misinterpretation and misconception of what the idea of equality and female liberation is about that the modern - especially Western - feminism stands for. With that said, judging the princesses' actions from the perspective of their longing and fighting for equality and/or against oppression, Snow White contributed virtually nothing to this struggle, before the Evil Queen attempted on her life or after. If anything, she is the one who relied on a bunch of men to give her a shelter and later nearly got herself killed due to her own stupidity wth the traditional male saviour riding on the white horse saving the day in the end. Does she take the blame for it? Absolutely not. That's the way the circumstances were and the direction the events went, however, Snow White remained completely and blatantly passive throughout the entire time and others did everything for her. Jasmine and Ariel on the other hand did challenge the society concepts and perceptions: Ariel rebelled against her father's misguided prejudices and outlooks and Jasmine rebelled against the arranged marriage. Regardless of where they failed or at what points they made the mistakes or commited certain reckless or thoughtless acts, they did make a change and they did evidently stand their ground. Had Jasmine not run away the events of the story would not have been set in motion and Sultan would have never changed the arranged marriage related laws. Same with Ariel: her rebellion, though reckless and profoundly dangerous, did contribute to a significant change being made and this change was for the better: she got to live on land, in a place she had been dreaming of living for years, where she was comfortable and content but mainly where she felt like she belonged and her father reconsidered his unwarranted accusations, views and attitudes towards the human world, being able to move on from his prejudices. That is, in my opinion, by far more powerful than anything done by Snow White or Belle. [i]I wouldn't call Ariel anit-feminist, but I don't see anything feminist in her actions either[/i] Well I have explained my perspective and argued my stance in the above commentary therefore don't feel like repeating myself. Sorry if there is anything wrong with the way I worded or presented it. To be fair, I have to also point out and highlight that both Jasmine and Rapunzel trusting the wanted thieves while being aware of their criminal ways of making a living was the epitome of delusion and recklessness, just as much as Ariel going to Ursula or Snow White letting the old hag into the house. They could have easily taken advantage, raped them or done something terrible considering their evident and obvious physical superiority and it would be laughable to suggest that Rapunzel's frying pan - or even the deal - would have protected her had Flynn not turned out to be a guy with a heart made of gold underneath the hard exterior of an arrogant sarcastic charmer. He could have threatened her, physically hurt her and MADE her turn around and come back to the tower, tell him where the satchel is, tie her up, take it and leave. Therefore, much like in Ariel's case, luck largely contributed to her success in achieving her goal.

Swanpride I didn't mean that Snow White is particulary feminist (for the time she was created, yes, but not from todays point of view), but I always had a particulary dislike for a the tendency in the 90th, to write so called "strong" female characters....just to show later on that they are oh so vulnerable after all and to let the formerly competent woman suddenly forget everything she knows and let her getting rescued by the hero after all. I rather take a housewife who is able to stand up for herself in a dangerous situation over a so called heroine who convenietly becomes incompetent. And Jasmine fits exactly this trope. She is supposed to be clever, but naturally, Aladdin is the one who reveals Jafars magic immediatly after seeing him using it. She is supposed to fight for the right not to marry, but she is awful fast ready to do exactly that. Ariel is not that bad...my main problem with her is that she is so inmature. But it's not like she break an abritary law. It's a law designed to protect a whole folk...and she just ignores it because she thinks she knows better, even though she never meet a human in person. Sebastian gets nearly eaten in the human world. The fish served for dinner might be someone she knows personally...the movie glosses over this problems, but they are still there. And Rapunzel took a very good look at Flynn before freeing him of her hair...the fact alone that he told her that trusting him is a terrible decision is very telling. Yes, she took a risk too, but it was a calculated risk, and she took it because she was out of options. Ariel takes a risk which isn't calculated at all, pays a price which is way to high (if the shell hadn't broken, she would have lost her voice forever), and gets everything she wants through sheer dumb luck. There is also a profund difference between being trapped in a tower and ignoring a law the whole Merfolk has to follow.

maryksand The entire premise of The Little Mermaid though was that the law as well as Triton's prejudices against humans were flawed and misguided/generalized and Ariel's knowledge on the human world was also flawed and superficial, based entirely and solely on her findings and items she collected, although technically it was her only option to educate herself and be exposed to any kind of information regarding the subject at all and she put enormous amount of effort into learning, all the time and to the best of her ability in the given circumstances. By the end of the movie both her and Triton get to learn more - and they do it because Ariel was the one who challenged the designed concepts and perceptions. To me, this is the definition of strength, not the ability to defeat your villians (which is something Rapunzel doesn't do either. And something that Snow White is particulary far from doing). I'm sorry, but the little chat in the tower that Rapunzel and Flynn had doesn't come off as "taking a very good look" at someone. Flynn could have turned out to be a good manipulator - and we know Rapunzel has quite a history with being effectively manipulated without even processing or recognizing the extent of brainwashing. And trusting a wanted criminal doesn't exactly strike me as a "calculated" risk either. It was just as - if not more -reckless as what Ariel did, because at the very least Ariel knew that if the things go in a right direction and if she manages to fulfill her plans and achieve her goals she might get what she wants whereas Rapunzel thoughlessly trusted someone who had a massive history with being a criminal. I do agree with you however that being subjected to the life in isolation as well as being systematically and methodically verbally abused/emotionally pressured gives you a much better reason to rebel or even be reckless, however, I do not see Rapunzel as this cold minded, calculated feminist icon (maybe that is also the reason why I love her so much considering I generally don't tend to naturally get attached to the Disney females that are specifically designed to represent female liberation ideas. Belle, Merida and Tiana are actually my bottom favourite princesses). Had the sheer luck not contributed Rapunzel might have ended up being assaulted by a random stranger she knew virtually nothing about. Had said luck not contributed to her happy ending again, Flynn would have remained dead, this time due to saving her. At least if anything bad had happened to Ariel due to her reckless actions, Eric wouldn't have had to pay the price for her mistakes because even when she was out of options and ultimately taken down by her villian she did everything in her power to protect Eric - and succeeded.

rhythmicmagic SweetPea2007- THANK YOU! You are my favorite person right now! If you really love someone, you should be willing to make sacrifices for them. However, I can also see the point maryksand made about how the movie combined Naveen with her dream of a restaurant, and how that could be potentially problematic. I must also agree with Swanpride on Mulan, she DOES deserve to be at the top (if not first, at least the top three) of the list. I don't know, maybe my feminist vision is skewed, but I personally find it more feminist when someone sets out on what might not be a "feminist goal" but ends up proving herself anyway. Also, she DID oppose gender roles, she was held under them for years and obviously despised it.

princesslullaby I was reading this article and its comments andmy boyfriend leans over, reads the title and goes "women" and heaves a big sigh

princesslullaby Also, I want to saythat I think Swanpride, you put too much stock in Rapunzel relying on Flynn in the towerbeing some smartmove where shehad no choice. I don't seehow Ariel had any lesschoice than Rapunzel, neitherhad entirelynecessary dreams, and bothtook significant risks trusting in someone who could have seriously harmed them, the difference hereis the audience knows thatFlynn isgood and Ursula isn't. And there is no way Rapunzel could gauge Flynn's character fromher brieftime spent withhim.. Sorry about the typing, this computer sucks

Swanpride My issue is less what the audience knows and more what the character knows...Rapunzel knows "Man with pointy teeth are dangerous" and Flynn doesn't have pointy teeth. She talks with Flynn to strike a deal, she has something to hold over him, and she discusses the matter with Pascal before she lets him go on her terms. Yeah, if Flynn had been really bad, she might have been in trouble, but from heir point of view, she had a leverage and no reason to believe that he wouldn't stick to the deal. Ariel on the other hand KNOWS the Ursula is a witch, she knows that she is dangerous, she knows what will happen to her if Eric doesn't kiss her and she knows that she will loose her voice forever. Her friends advice her against taking the deal - and despite knowing all the risks, despite knowing that she gives Ursula power over her, she does it. And sorry, that's just stupid. If Ariel at least didn't know that Ursula is dangerous and the terms of the contract were less direct, I wouldn't fault her so much, but what Ariel does is the equivalent to running away from home with no money, no plan and because of the flimsy promises of some shady character. What Rapunzel does is equals sneaking out for a night of fun because the parents are so overy controlling that you are not even allowed out of the house otherwise. She does it with a plan, with the intention (and means) to come back and only because she has no freedom otherwise (Ariel has the whole ocean). Their motivations are different, their methods are different, their intentions are different, you just can't compare what Rapunzel did to what Ariel did. What Rapunzel did is more like what Cinderella does.

maryksand Rapunzel talking to her pet chameleon (who couldn't talk back) was an indication of her slight mental instability she developed due to years of isolation and unhealthily abusive environment she was raised in and in no way defines thoughtfulness or calculation. Flynn was a thief and she was taught to be afraid of "ruffians and thugs" just as much as she was taught to be afraid of "men with pointy teeth" therefore giving Flynn points for being less of a threat due to the lack of one of those features while neglecting and carelessly brushing under the rug his thieving was delusional and incredibly dangerous. What if Stabbington brothers had ended up in her tower instead? They don't have pointy teeth either and they would have done some terrible things to Rapunzel had she untied them hoping they take her to see the floating lights. Sheer luck contributed to her success in that case. She in no way takes the blame for that because as mentioned above she lived in isolation enduring abuse almost daily, however, the extent of her issues with manipulation and brainwashing was so great it's impossible to even suggest or assume that a person in her position could actually form a well thought out and perfectly constructed plan, considering how incredibly limited and misguided her worldview and perception of people was due to years of manipulation and relying solely on Gothel's lies and misconceptions. As someone who has been raised in a similar environment I know how greatly it affects person's psyche, often to the point where you cannot be rational and Rapunzel definitely wasn't. She just grabbed the first opportunity to get her one day of freedom and relied on a wanted criminal to achieve her goal. Had she not been exceptionally lucky she would have ended up like many girls end up: assaulted or even dead. The reason why Ariel wanted to live on land was the fact that she did not feel content under the sea or in her mermaid body. The ocean could have been even wider and she still would have been miserable. Ursula had a deal and Ariel willingly subscribed to the terms. Ariel KNEW Ursula was evil and that is just as much of a representation of her recklessness as a representation of her adventage. Rapunzel could only blindly rely on someone who COULD HAVE ended up either good OR evil, possessing no knowledge and having no garantess regarding how it's actually going to go.

Swanpride But you can't fault Rapunzel for that...if she had been a male raised under those circumstances, it wouldn't have any difference. And Rapunzel, despite being taught NOT to believe in herself and NOT to step out of line, despite being manipulated all her life, rises about it and claims the right to make her own decisions and find her own happiness...you said it yourself, didn't you? Rapunzel does what she does despite her fears, and rises above what was done to her, and that's what I call a strong female character. Ariel simply doesn't have any fears in the first place, and she doesn't seem to be particulary unhappy either, it's just that she want "mooooooooore". And really, was Ursula the only option? Even if Ariel had no chance to convince Triton, she could have looked into countless other options first before throwing away her future this way. Rapunzel had no other options, and she only decided to rely on Flynn, after Gothel revealed that she would never allow her out of the tower. Ariel acts like a teenager - which is okay, she is a bratty teenager, that's one of the reason I like her character, that she isn't perfect and that the movie doesn't pretend that she is (unlike Jasmine, who isn't perfect but the movie tries to tell me that he actions are something admirable). But when it comes to feminism, Ariel just isn't a very good example. I will defend her from everyone who says that the movie proclaims that it is a good idea to sell your own voice for a man. But that doesn't change the fact that she isn't a good role model and in her failure to correct the mess she created herself, she isn't particulary feminist either. She gets brownie points for at least rescuing Eric along the way, twice.

maryksand That's exactly why I highlighted (multiple times) that Rapunzel gets no blame for ANY of her decisions and even her recklessness. That was not my point and not sure if I should even keep arguing on the matter because I'm probably not the best person to talk about feminism. All I was trying to point out is that while yes, definitely and undoubtedly, Rapunzel has more of a reason to rebel than Ariel and even more of an excuse to be careless in some aspects to the same dangerous extent as Ariel, it doesn't in any way, shape or form alter the fact that A) Flynn could have ended up manipulating and assaulting her and there is nothing she could have done about it B) Rapunzel was emotionally unstable due to years of isolation, brainwashing and abuse (and that's something I can personally relate to, having quite an experience with those kinds of issues myself, and for more than 18 years) hence her inability to think rationally and turning to a pet chameleon to advice. Rapunzel's actions were not calculated or well planned out at all from the perspective of an observer (or a viewer), but from HER perspective they were and that is where she is clearly superior to Ariel who didn't even attempt to outline a plan. Yet, once again, Rapunzel's actions were not a representation of feminism, it was a desperate attempt of a desperate (and abused) person to gain the slightest of positive experience and fulfill at the very least one of her dreams and she chose an incredibly dangerous way of going about it, because it was her ONLY way. And it is not calculated, well thought out or feminist, it's tragic. And in real life it might have ended very badly, as it does in many cases, however, considering it's Disney, obviously, everything worked out well, but there was every single chance for it to not go the direction Rapunzel initially expected it to go. And I guess I'm just taking the situation very personally now and probably sound harsh which is in no way my intention (and which is something I apologize for if that's actually the case) and that's why I'll probably just stop here, especially since I agree with your points, only look at the situation from a different angle.

Swanpride I think that strong female characters in general are feminist...the stronger, the better, and Rapunzel is in my eyes the epitome of strong. Don't apologize, it's an interesting discussion...but I don't think we'll end up on the same page, so it might be better to leave it at that.

maryksand I do definitely agree about Rapunzel being probably the strongest princess even though I think all of them are strong in their own unique way. Feminism is an ideology, mostly centered around Western ideals of success and independence that don't always work for me and that's why probably I don't quite get the grasp of how said ideology works. It's been a pleasure to talk to you and in this particular case I guess it's just the kind of situation where we should agree to disagree in regards to the differences in our perspectives and agree on those aspects that we actually agree on.

Swanpride Which are actually quite a lot...btw, I just posted an article of my own, concerning the animation in the movies. Which, I think, is also an interesting topic (at least more interesting than "who looks better").

maryksand True:) And definitely going to read it!

BookWorm26 *clap, clap* Wonderful article! I agree with the list!!!!

AudreyFreak I wish people realized feminism is about equal rights and dignity (which ALL heroines have) and not "acts like a guy" or "doesn't outright state she wants a boyfriend" or "is rebellious". that's dumb, not feminist. I'd like to point out that *real* feminists, the 1st wavers, were mostly pro-life Christian women who loved their husbands. I agree what snow is a "gentle" feminist, if you go by the new definition of it. But I'd have to point out that not a single heroine "sat around waiting", unless you mean Belle sat around waiting for an adventure but never went out to find one. Or how Pocahontas sat around waiting for advice from Grandmother Willow. or how Jasmine sat around complaining about how hard she has it. Feminism is not about being masculine, competing with guys, being outspoken, hating traditional femininity. that is actually VERY anti-feminist. to say a woman has to be stubborn or tomboyish or adventurous or rebellious or mouthy is very, very, very anti-woman. and that is why many people have a problem with modern feminists.